Monday, April 21, 2008 Washington post article "For Visas, The Demand Outstrips The Supply - Firms Say They Rely On Skilled Immigrants" profiled architectural design firm "Development Design Group" in Baltimore, MD.Chief executive Roy Higgs is quoted:
"Some people think this is just about bringing in cheap labor, but it's not. We offer the same salaries and perks whether you're from Baltimore or Bangladesh . . . but we simply cannot find enough qualified U.S.-born staff to fuel our growth."
The Washington Post failed to disclose the salary these H-1b workers are paid. But according to the DOL's LCA database, the MEDIAN is about $42,000, while over 25% earn less than $35,000. Now go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics website, where one finds that the mean wage for an architect in Baltimore is $69,210.
What skills are required? Development Design Group's website does not list any "entry level" openings, so we have to presume that their pending H-1b applications require these skills - including 3 to 7 years of experience:
PROJECT ARCHITECTS / DESIGNERS
Possess a thorough knowledge, understanding and experience in all phases of the design process including Concept Design, Schematic Design, and Design Development
3 ~ 7 years experience in a multitude of areas including but not limited to retail, mixed-use, entertainment, planning, urban design and residential
Strong design and graphic skills and sketching abilities
Excellent organizational skills
Proficiency with AutoCAD / ADT, Photoshop and other software
We think the facts speak for themselves - Roy Higgs is a "typical" user of H-1b - enriching himself by securing skilled labor at blue-light special salary, shirking his obligation to hire Americans at a fair salary.
32 comments:
Mr. Berry, what’s your point. Have you ever filed an H1-B Visa? Do you know all the guidelines? The company is following the guide lines set by the United States government.
anonymous,
The company is NOT following guidelines when H-1Bs are paid at 50% of the median salary for the job.
But, you may be right in that a company is allowed to make up its own salary survey.
anonymous said:
Mr. Berry, what’s your point.
His point is that H-1B visas are being used to drive down wages. No American would invest $50k tuition, 4 years intense study, and 1 year internship to earn $32K per year.
anonymous said:
The company is following the guide lines set by the United States government.
Yes, and slave holders before the civil war were only following the guide lines set by the US government. That policy increased business profits. Does that mean slavery is ok?
Child labor was permitted by US government guidelines into the 20th century. That policy increased business profits. Does that make child labor ok?
Americans have had to train their H-1B visa replacements in order to get their severance pay. That follows the guide lines set by the US government. The H-1B visa policy increases business profits. Does that make it ok?
All I am saying is that you should not blame the company for what they are doing. They are following guidelines set by the government. Government does this based on salary surveys. IT field is no exception.
I agree that it takes some time for the government to make adjustments. However, this does not mean that the company cannot operate under the current guide lines. Also, keep in mind that majority of the time companies hire h1-B candidates when they cannot find a good person locally. Indian programmers have proven again and again that they are far superior from the likes of people like Kim Berry. I have worked with them and seen their work and the processes. They are very good. There is a lot of emphasis on quality. I have also worked with several local programmers. Things are very comparable.
As a business owner, I first give preference to quality. This is followed by cost and I am very happy with the Indian programmers. They are open to learning anything and open to challenges. They are also willing to work long hours to finish the project as compared to some of the local folks who work looking at the clock.
Now back to guidelines:
Slavery is/was not ok.
Child labor is/was not ok.
When it comes to business profits, it is ok.
If you are that concerned about things, why don’t you fight to increase the minimum wages so that it benefits the poor. IT folks (especially the local guys) are way overpaid for sitting on their butt and preaching (all the BS). Give it to the guys who really work hard and make this country great.
That is the reason groups like PG is fighting to change the law. If law is not proper then it needs to be changed. Actually based on good faith there is not much regulation for H1b. When companies misusing H1b than regulation need to put or law need to be changed.Any country will protects their citizens jobs job first before allowing foreigners. India and China does that 100%. Can any Indian company or government enterprise lay off hundreds of people and outsourcejobs to other countries? Why you people are opposing when americans think in that way? My opinion is H1b need to be hired if really skilled person is not available. Even if american can be hired with 6 months to 1 year training he should be hired. If no option is left then companies can hire foreigners.
No one is fighting. One thing we all need to keep in mind is that United States is a capitalistic country. It has an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly privately owned and are operated for profit. Profit is the key word and it is the profit that has made this country prosperous and the richest in the world.
Industries and sectors go through transformation over a period of time. IT sector is no exception.
Successful companies are always looking at ways to cut costs and improve profit. Hiring high quality foreign talent is just one of the things they do. They get better quality work and it is less expensive and this generates profit. So, why wouldn’t they? Why shouldn’t they? Kim Berry is not funding them. It is the share holders who are funding them and risking their money to make profit. This is one of the foundational blocks of a capitalistic society.
If Programmer’s guild is that concerned, then why don’t they all get together and form a company and create jobs for local folks. I challenge them. I am 1001% sure that they will not be able to do it and have an operating model which makes them profit.
Companies like Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, etc who hire Indian programmers have a very successful operating model and this has made several US citizens richer. They will continue to prosper while Programmers Guild continue to whine about lost opportunities.
anonymous said:
Profit is the key word and it is the profit that has made this country prosperous and the richest in the world.
The richest country in the world? Ha ha. The US is the most IN DEBT country in the world. Currently to the tune of $9.3 TRILLION dollars. That's
$9,000,000,000,000
You call 9 trillion dollars in the hole rich? The US is charging everything on their credit card. I guess we'll just let our grandchildren pay for it and in the meantime, pretend like we're the richest country in the world.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Hi,
Rep. Lamar Smith who introduced the bill, H.R. 5642, that will triple the cap on H-1B visa applications recently stated that several of the companies that apply for H-1B visas engage in abusive practices.
Please contact your own representatives and the representatives that are sponsoring H.R. 5642. I believe these politicians will respond to large groups of voters.
How can Congress even think of increasing the number of guest workers at a time of recession and layoffs?
As gasoline is $3.50 a gallon workers are going to need better raises just to keep up with inflation.
But skilled US professionals will be lucky to keep their job, much less get a raise, if Congress further saturates the labor pool with more guest workers.
As for those already out of work or about to enter the work force ... how do you think it will help your chances of finding a good job if Congress increases the number of H-1B visas?
anonymous said:
When it comes to business profits, it is ok.
I absolutely agree with you here. Long term business profits are necessary. But you need to make the distinction between profits and greed. Also, consider short term profits versus long term profits.
If a company lays off a large number of its workers in order to meet the upcoming quarter's Wall St. numbers, but then finds 6 months later they need to increase hiring, then they have no right to claim skills shortage. That business created its own problems by focusing on the short term.
"Also, consider short term profits versus long term profits."
And you think companies like Google, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM etc. think only short term? How do you explain the way they have and continue to improve and give us great products? And that too in an area with minimum subsidies (unlike agriculture etc.) and where they have to compete on a level playing field with companies from other countries?
What in your view is a long term plan?
Kim,
Looks like the Indians are taking over other fields too:
For example, Indra Nooyi is the CEO of Pepsi and she just turned around the company.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1733748_1733758_1736190,00.html
Ratan Tata just bought the prestigious British automakers Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1733748_1733758_1735108,00.html
I think you and your group must fight these Indians from taking over too.
What are your thoughts?
Don't mix MASS H1/L1 immigration displacing middle class with specific individuals of a certain ethnic origin achieving high offices in US Cos. That is a transparent tactic - "Einstein was an immigrant so that proves all immigrants are super geniuses & good for the country.
Or you don't have the thinking capacity to distinguish the scaling effect from a few to the masses. Also you will notice Kim never mentions Indians as a group - just mass H1/L1s of which Indians just happen to be a majority today but tomorrow it could be Chinese.
lets cut the crap. these visas are government subsidy to businesses. Let them bring million third worlders each year. The result would be a social revolution by displaced people to overthrow current elite business/political oligarchs.
What happened to PG. There is one bill visa recapture bill they are planning to issue 550k green cards.
the house sub commitee marked up hr 5882
PG is not doing anything. Is that means they accept this bill?
Kim Berry of the Programmer's Guild gave a really outstanding talk. I had seen his slides earlier, and they were fine, but his delivery greatly enhanced the content.
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Reb Brown
Maryland Treatment Centers
Anonymous of 8/22,
As a 15 year software engineer I would dispute that the average H1B is better than the average US educated software professional. While many H1B professionals are extremely competent, just as many are marginally competent and only competitive because they will work for half the wage demanded by a citizen.
Massive abuses of the H1B system are documented at exactly those places you mentioned; Microsoft, Oracle, Intel.
If, as a business owner, you give first preference to quality, would you care to document your business and the educational and professional background of your workforce along with their relative compensation?
The "business owners" of this country will generally pursue any method, illegal, unethical, or not, in order to depress wages in pursuit of profits. The entire history of the labor movement has been fighting for a reasonable share of the wealth generated by american industry. Business has used your exact arguments when arguing against child labor, the eight hour workday, the right to not be killed on the job, and paid holidays, for example.
Depressing wages impoverishes us all and benefits a tiny elite that has already claimed 90% of all wage growth in the united states since 1980.
It is about time that more people stood up to the abuses of the H1B program.
I have documented some personal experiences here of the Indian H-1B contractors.
I have met some good and genuine ones. However, 99.9% of them are dishonest, lacks basic skills and sadly are just here for the American dream at all cost. They lie at interviews and fake their resumes.
This is my personal experience.
http://indianh1bcrap.blogspot.com/2008/08/in-this-country-as-long-as-you-can-lie.html
I was having lunch with P and A the other day. Both were SAP professionals.
"A" has just been here for 2 years, he's currently on his H-1B.
I have worked with both of them for 3 months when this conversation occured.
"A" was not too impressive, he talks way too much in SAP and IT jargons - he almost seems like an insecure brat who seems to be trying way too hard to make himself 'misunderstood' sometimes hoping and trying to get everyone to not understand him, lest he does not have to explain himself in further detail and also so he gets to hang around projects for as long as possible.
It was amazing how the conversation went
"P" mentioned that a friend of his just resigned from a large consulting firm to be an independent contractor. According to "P", the rate was a whopping USD220 per hour as a consultant in the HR (Human Resources) module within SAP
"A" eyes immediatey lit up. He was asking about the location, company, project duration.
I could not help myself. I had to cut in, "But you are not an HR consultant !?", I chimed in.
"A" turned and look at me, quite indignantly he looked at me, almost like I was an annoying moron and said, "In the US, as long as you can talk and lie, you can land an IT job, all you need is a fake resume"
I was nonetheless shocked and flabbergasted at the response. But playing the role of the uninitiated, I had to feign innocence and quickly phrase my next question, "But how do you get pass the interview ?"
Holding my breath, as I waited for him to choke and realise that his attempt of lying and faking will not work.
His reply almost floored me.
"Look here", 'A' quickly shot back, "Most interviews are conducted by phone anyways, when you go for an interview, you write those questions down. You collect those questions and read up on them. Sure, you may fail the first interview and maybe the second interview"
"By the time you answered the phone for the tenth interview, you would have written down enough interview questions to get you through", he looked at me again. "Don't tell me you are that stupid"
So, it was a superb modus operandi, from writing fake resumes to writing interview questions down and studying for it over and over again.
Once again, another Indian H-1B trash.
In response to "No More Indian H1Bs Please" last statement.
I don't think he's fooling anybody. They can't wait to hire these people cause they're cheap and they won't leave so they don't have to compete to keep them.
Once they get in the door, it won't take long for everyone to realize they over-sold themselves, but it won't matter. They'll get all the in-house training they'll need. No in-house training for Americans anymore.
I would love to see a reform in this program that strictly prohibits in-house training for H1Bs, and if a company was caught doing it, they would be fined, and never be allowed to request another H1B visa.
You can't claim to not be able to find a qualified American, and then give in-house training to a non-american to get them up to speed for the position you couldn't fill with an American.
There would be a toll-free number to the Dept of Lablor that workers could call to report this, without the fear of being revealed. Also, it should be policy that ALL H1B hires are announced in a way that assures all current employees are aware of the situation. Just like mandatory comliance meetings.
I think a lot of Americans who are still employed, just aren't aware of this, or they just think they're above it. By the time it affects you, it's too late to do anything.
In response to JB's last statement.
I'm totally ready to stand up against this. Do you know if the Programmers Guild has ever protested in Washington. I would definately go, and bring whomever I could convince to come along.
I've never believed in unions before, but now I understand why they exist.
The problem I have is in convincing other technical people I am in contact with about this problem.. I think most people can't see past their ownd little sphere. They just think they are so important where they are, they can never be threatened.
If all the technical people just stood together, we wouldn't even need the Government. But we're so splintered and feeble as a group.
We have to get the word out to as many technical professionals as possible about this problem.
A lot has been written against H1b workers, Can you sit down and try to find a solution? I had worked in US on H1b visa for 3 years and I am getting 90K salary. Yes there are some employers, who hire guys on 32k or even less salary, But there are solution for this kind of problems.
Why don't you ask your government to make it must for the Companies to pay minimum 85-90K per annum to any H1b/L1 worker. Your all problems will be resolved.
"His point is that H-1B visas are being used to drive down wages. No American would invest $50k tuition, 4 years intense study, and 1 year internship to earn $32K per year."
Thank you!!! This is the major point of frustration for me - why would I spend more time and money on additional education, when the salary ranges keep trending downward?
"Why don't you ask your government to make it must for the Companies to pay minimum 85-90K per annum to any H1b/L1 worker. Your all problems will be resolved."
This will not happen due to the fact that Americans are no longer represented by their political appointees - they are merely pawns of the now "global" corporations that have employees and offices remaining here in the US.
One More Point: American students and their parents are deciding to steer away from Technology.
The net result is that the US has a vastly inferior pool of Technologists.
We will have to buy our defense weapons in the future and outsource the skills needed to defend ourselves.
And Another Point: There are so many H1-B's here that many of the ones who have been here for 5 years are unemployed. They claim they are working for semi-legitimate companies which are really just self-employment vehicles. I get 5-10 calls per week from such start-ups. Those start-ups are the first companies many corporations go to with job listings.
Sometimes I find a large pool of unemployed , who have been here for a few years and are worth more, H1-B's who are replaced out of work by cheeper - newer H1-Bs
This is not a Professional Firm. Staff is Illiterate in many matters; they do only schematic work which can be done by any fresh graduate from USA or any person from other country. They don't hire many staff from USA because after some time they think they don’t grow in their field and they leave the firm to get more experience.
And this company doesn't follow USCIS and DOL laws. When company hires staff from other country or on H1-B, they pay in front ...but later on they try to force all the employee to sign the agreement and if you don’t sign those agreement they force to get the money back what ever they pay for H1-B.
I didn't hear good things about this company and some of my friends call them “MAFIA”.
This is not a Professional Firm. Staff is Illiterate in many matters; they do only schematic work which can be done by any fresh graduate from USA or any person from other country. They don't hire many staff from USA because after some time they think they don’t grow in their field and they leave the firm to get more experience.
And this company doesn't follow USCIS and DOL laws. When company hires staff from other country or on H1-B, they pay in front ...but later on they try to force all the employee to sign the agreement and if you don’t sign those agreement they force to get the money back what ever they pay for H1-B.
I didn't hear good things about this company and some of my friends call them “MAFIA”.
Dear Mr. Berry:
I'm posting here since it's the first place I found where I can comment on your views and the issues on this site.
I had never heard of you until yesterday's article in the NY Times. I hope I'm one of many readers who track down your website and respond to your apparent position on immigration.
I'm a venture capitalist. I'm sure you know what that is, but among our benefits is that we contribute to America's competitiveness by assisting the most innovative and promising people, regardless of nationality, to develop companies and techhologies that keep America competitive and create jobs.
I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with your position. I can't understand how you can hold these views if you care about America's history, world competitiveness and its future.
The U.S. depends on immigration. That's how this nation developed. Today we want to keep attracting the best and the brightest. The companies I work with hire the best people they can and if they're not American-born, we don't care. We want to build successful companies and create more jobs and value for this country. We search far and wide for good talent. If we were forced to hire less than the best employees, it would detract from our goal of making our companies competitive.
Positions like yours only serve to curb that goal. I hope your views never gain serious currency. They are only an inhibitor to America's (and your) way of life and forward progress.
Jonathan E. Funk
Managing Director
Allegis Capital
Santa Monica, CA
jfunk@allegiscapital.com
Let the Department of Labor enforce compliance of the H-1B.
Visit
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/forms/fts_wh4.htm
and fill out a WH-4, or call 1-866-4uswage.
This will set in motion an audit:
Department of Labor can audit employers to require evidence of compliance. Employers should
keep records in case of audit, such as the following:
• Ads and notices describing the position opening;
• Copies of resumes received for the position;
• Notes about lack of qualifications of applicants for the position;
On April 23, 2009 Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL)and Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) introduced the H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act – narrowly-tailored bipartisan legislation that would reform the H-1B and L-1 guest-worker programs to prevent abuse and fraud and to protect American workers.
Has the Programmer's Guild reviewed this legislation or will you in the near future?
On April 23, 2009 Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL)and Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) introduced the H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act – narrowly-tailored bipartisan legislation that would reform the H-1B and L-1 guest-worker programs to prevent abuse and fraud and to protect American workers.
Has the Programmer's Guild reviewed this legislation or will you in the near future?
The company is following the guide lines set by the United States government.
however this does seem to be a policy adopted by other countries...is it cheap labour...or can other people carry out the job better
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